Thursday, June 9, 2016

Throwback Thursday

Look at the baby pony!!! (2014ish) - not sure what I was doing

Tasty Snacks (2013ish)

What a baby! (early 2013)


Wednesday, June 8, 2016

Far Away


I've been in Spokane, WA since Monday for work. I had planned, based on our schedule, that I'd have lots of time to blog but that's not been the case. My co-worker from MN is here with me and is a huge foodie so we've been going out to dinner every evening and been onsite all day. However, we got done early but couldn't change our flights so we'll be here still but just working out of the hotel room which means I'll have lots of time. I'm planning a nice early run tomorrow and then will do some blogging in between work if I can.

In other news, my previous farrier (now referred to as Katai's Chiro), is able and willing to come out to the barn and will be there tomorrow to take care of my pony. I can't wait to hear what she finds and hope that whatever is going on is that she's out some where and not something more serious.

Apparently while I haven't had time to do much blogging I have had time to worry about my pony.

I'm also hoping that Katai will be ridable fairly quickly. I've been texting with another barn friend, who we'll call A, and she also has a young horse (one that did much better at the last show that Katai did) that she wants to get out and expose to the world. She came up with the brilliant idea of going to the local western fun shows that are $3 per class rather than $25 and around a little more rough and ready local crowd. She also has the means to trailer both of us there!

I'm toying with the idea of not signing up for this schooling show at the end of June and doing a few fun shows, back to back, instead. They'll cost $10-$20 instead of $95-$150 like the dressage shows will and I think will be even better to get her exposed to new environments. A also suggested taking both horses to a trail system and the beach! I've ridden past horses in the water at the beach in the Mississippi river but never Katai and it would be so much fun!


I haven't totally decided yet, I'm mainly waiting to see how she does at the next one to see if there's a large amount of progress or only a small amount before I decide.

In other news, H's pony has done so well at learning the ropes that after his second schooling show she has signed up for one of the big rated shows in our region at the end of June. I'd say that I'm jealous, and I maybe am just a little, but she has been taking dressage lessons for way longer than I have, her pony is 13 vs. 8, and he was well trained when she got him rather than her training him from scratch. Plus he's a gelding and not a sensitive mare demon. Mainly I'm just looking forward to being able to do the same thing with Katai, hopefully next year :)

Monday, June 6, 2016

Dream Barn

So I'm a little weird when it comes to esthetics and tend to really like european architecture and style over american. I'm not sure if it's because I watch a lot of riders from that part of the world on Youtube or if it's just something that appeals to me but it's definitely my preference.

I don't think I've ever talked about it on this blog but one of my dream scenarios for my future is to own a 5-10 acre piece of land with a combo barn house. I love tiny houses and although I wouldn't want to live in one long term, I'm all about having very specific spaces and not wasting space. I feel like the space should go to what you do 90% of the time you're at your house and to be completely honest I spend my time when I'm home on the couch and in the kitchen so I'd just have a small bedroom, maybe a tiny study/office, and a nice sized kitchen/dinning room/living area. The areas that I would have I'd want to be very nice, with stylish finishes (like a nice large rain shower and a claw foot tub) but I want the house to be very small.

At any rate what I really dream about is what the barn would look like. I'm not a fan of pole buildings, I like stone and/or brick which probably comes from growing up with a brick dairy barn. That building was cool in the summer and warm in the winter. It felt solid and you didn't hear the wind beating at it on stormy days. Instead it was a beautiful, calm, peaceful space. I also like more architecture than just an isle down the middle with stalls on either side. I want 3 stalls and a tack room/laundry/stairs to the house space that could double as a guest room including a second fridge, water, and possibly even a toilet. Plus a wash stall/grooming area.

Last night I spent a bunch too much time on Pinterest collecting pictures that capture the ascetic of the space I want and I thought it would be kind of fun to share them.


Minus the baby this is exactly what I'd want my barn to be like
Not this big or grand but I love this set up and it's got the basic ascetic I like


I would LOVE a door like this between the tack room and the rest of the barn

Renovated barn as hotel, I'd just turn it back into a barn :)

Another renovated barn as living space, obviously I wouldn't want the interior of my barn to be quite this nice
I'd love a big window like this in the house part of the barn
If you could do anything and had no budget what would your dream barn look like?

Sunday, June 5, 2016

Getting Out


For some reason it's like some sort of switch has turned on in my brain after the show and all of a sudden I feel really capable of making changes without involving other people. After watching this video  I realized that I really want to be able to get Katai outside and have her handle the terrain and just be able to be handled outside. Something about the calm, relaxed way that Elisa handles her thoroughbreds just really motivated me to get out and deal with Katai's behavior and start working on making it better.

I got Katai tacked up and ready to go and went out into a drizzle to do some good work. I decided to hop up to start off and jump down if I needed to. I schooled mounting and keeping her still for a little and then, once she was doing well there, I mounted up and she immediately lost her mind.

More on that later

At any rate, I dismounted and got her going forward around me in a circle. Then, once some of her brain was back in her head I started "ground riding" her with one arm over the saddle. She was doing pretty well until we got her near the trailers and then we lost it again so I started playing my version of the "Squeeze Game" and trying to get her to stop close to the trailer and making her work when she was moving away from it.

It worked really well and she caught on pretty quick and was standing between me and the trailer, facing it. So I ground rode her around the horse pens. It's a decent little trail ride and she did a great job.

Old me, would have just called it there but the new more motivated me hopped up and went to do the same thing actually riding my pony. Once I mounted up she got tense and naughty for a moment (again, more on this later) but I was able to ride her through it and soon we were walking in a relaxed manner back around the pens. I thought about hopping off before we had to ride past the trailers again but instead I stayed up and told her that I'd give her snacks (which she hasn't been getting at all) if she was good. She was! She walked right past and then halted and stood still while I dismounted so she got lots of orange snacks.

I was extremely proud of both of us, not only that we got out and did it but also that we did it on a slightly windy and rainy day when the other horses were pretty keyed up. It will be great practice for a show environment and I'm planning to do the same thing very soon.

Then today I rode her in the indoor and I had exactly the same fussy, bratty pony that I did last Friday right before the show. This time though I FINALLY put together that I think she's out somewhere either her ribs, pelvis or back. She is still really (as in literally traveling at a 45* angle) swinging her haunches to the left and when I dismounted I noticed that she's still got a bit of a twist in her tail when she walks which is really unusual for her.


I had seen that slightly odd tail carriage when I lunged her after a few days off after the show but I figured she was just a little stiff or sore. Now, when she's still doing that I'm sure she has something going on either in her musculature or, more likely, needs chiro. I feel bad that I didn't put it together sooner but I'm also wondering now whether that effected her show day at all. Who knows, I have a feeling there was enough adrenaline that it wouldn't have effected her behavior much but I'm still curious. At any rate, I'm sure it explains her bad behavior more recently.

I've texted my previous farrier, the one that I fired :(, because she's great with chiro and I think that we agreed that I'd still have her do chiropractic but we'll see. Hopefully she'll be willing to come out while I'm out of town, or hopefully she'll just be willing to come out period...

Friday, June 3, 2016

Recap and Coming Up Next


I'm so pleased about how our show went this past weekend. I learned a lot and I think there were a lot of good take aways. I went back and forth about whether to post this but from a journalling perspective I think it will be very helpful for me so I'm going with it.

1. I need to continue to do more ground work

She had been doing so well in her normal environment that I've been ignoring this a little. I had focused on it in the weeks before the show but I need to make this more of a priority. Of course she's only bad when she's under stress and I was actually able to keep her from running me over which was enough for me at this show, but I want to make it even better for next time.

2. Trailering

This one is so frustrating when you don't have your own trailer. I have someone that has a trailer that I can maybe borrow but she's been out of town for the past month so I haven't been able to talk to her about it. H has a trailer but it's about 2 hours away so it's nearly impossible to got get it, park it at the barn for a few days and then deliver it 2 hours away again :(

I'm going to do some begging and see if I can borrow a trailer on any sort of regular basis. It's not that I can't get her on, it's more that it causes her a lot of stress and I'd like to be able to practice show trips on a regular basis.

3. Packing Stuff
Randomly piled in my little car before the show
I struggled with all my stuff last weekend. It didn't help that it was rainy and muddy but with my lack of organization my stuff got even wetter and dirtier than it would have been with more preparation. Between that and not being able to find what I needed, plus lots of trips back and forth to my car, and I really need to figure out a better system.

Mucky, wet, stinky tack after the show (and cute puppy :)
I love planning and organizing stuff like this so I'd put some thought into it but, honestly, it caught me a little off guard that my show came up that quickly. Next time I'll be better prepared!

My poor boots

Our next show is coming up quickly! I'm going another schooling show on June 25th and L is out of town tomorrow through the 19th. I'll do fine on my own, especially since it's less about riding and more about handling the dragon pony. What's actually going to be a little trickier is that I'm going out of town early on Monday and will be out of town through Friday. In between I'll be riding two horses on Saturday and Sunday for three weekends in a row. At least I won't be lacking riding time :)

Wednesday, June 1, 2016

Goals Redo


Despite never getting the formatting corrected on my last post about goals (I think I would have had to start from scratch and I haven't been motivated enough to do that) I have been making progress with my goal to reformat my goals. Mainly I think it's more of a conceptual thing but with goals that's the real struggle right?

What I realized, at work of all places, is that I already have the tools to structure goals for myself. After all I participate in coaching conversations with many employees on a regular basis and help them set goals. I just needed to start using my experience and not freaking out about how to structure these in a more standard way that doesn't work for my brain.

So I've decided to break these down into "buckets" and update at the beginning of each month. Thinking of these as buckets (or topics or whatever makes sense) just works better for me. There's more flexibility built into the idea of a list of "buckets" than there is in a more specific list or plan. Since it works for my brain I'm going with it and since it's the beginning of June so I figured this was a good time to start. 

1. Proper bend to the left - We've got it about 90% of the time to the right, not it's time to get it to the left

2. Stretchy Trot - This is so necessary for her brain and teaching her not to just run when we're stretching will help with everything else, plus it's an upcoming movement :)

3. Canter Transitions - Practice, practice, practice

4. Lateral Work - All of the sideways. After a recent break through at the Susanne Winslade clinic we've actually got this sometimes and I can feel when we have it. Now we just need to practice and get more consistent

5. Cavaletti Exercise - I'm currently on the struggle bus with teaching Katai to transition within gaits (trot right now) and she likes to take shuffly little steps and then just walk when I ask her to slow within the trot. I think part of it is strength but part of it is that she just isn't quite sure what I'm asking for. I tried out an exercise where I put three cavaletti on each side of a 20 meter circle with one side being closer together (shorter steps) and the other were further apart (longer steps). 


I didn't do one after the other since that would certainly have just blown her pony mind but I would do one a few times, take a walk break and then do the other. It was really rough but eventually she really started to understand and we quite on a good note. This isn't something I'm planning to work on regularly but it will be a good way to mix up our other rides.

Monday, May 30, 2016

Act II: Show Recap 5/29

After a horrible night of sleep I woke up to my alarm at 5:30am and rolled out of bed. I put on my show clothes, made coffee and loaded myself into my car. I was running pretty early (nerves?) so I got to the barn earlier than planned at around 6:15am.

One of my other barn mates had arrived earlier and fed all three horses from our barn so Katai already had her grain and hay and was calmly eating. L got there right around me and we spent a little time getting our tack back out of our cars and in the isle. Of course, as soon as we got everything out it started to rain, first light and then fairly heavy. We were crossing our fingers that it would end by 7:30 when we planned to pull the horses out for some lunging/hand walking.

Luckily, almost on cue, the rain stopped and switched to some random spots of mist so we took that as a sign and got tacked up. Katai was decent in her stall and listened while I got her saddle on. She even snacked on her hay and drank some water while I was there. L finished first so she pulled her youngster (who was still quite calm) out and brought him to a back field to lunge. Since lunging isn't part of Katai's routine and it often just causes her to gallop and spin like a top, I elected to just walk her over to the cluster of show rings and into the midst of everything.

One of the quieter moments
On Saturday she had been quite calm, not sure if it was the relatively quieter environment or the Quietex, but on Sunday that wasn't the case. Pony was quite prancy, did some rearing and carrying on, and fussed in general. She was a little worried about umbrellas but mainly she just was high as a kite and didn't want to listen or pay attention to me.

I knew that it would be better if I just got on so that I could allow her to move forward. Only problem was getting on since she didn't want to stand by the mounting block for more than half a second. I just kept her moving, did some schooling and pats for standing for even a moment in that corner, and eventually got her to stand for a very brief period of time so that I could jump on.

Warmup - small dressage ring in the background
As soon as I got my second stirrup picked up I got her into a trot and had nothing to fault her for in the warmup. She was, again, really, really, really good! She was a little nervy about the horses running around in warmup (there were a bunch of kids on hunter/jumper ponies that were doing a lot of random canter shapes and coming up behind us) but really listened. She was forward and didn't have any tantrums and was evening listening to my half halts and slowing cues. We did some walk and trot and it was a huge success. I was riding right after L in the big ring, across from the warm up we were in, and my goal was to trot the whole time that L was riding so that she'd be quiet when we crossed over to the big ring.

I judged it as a huge success that I actually got her in the big ring since there was a LOT to look at over there. Then it became a bit rough. On Saturday Katai was fine with the closed up trailer that would serve as the judge's stand but I figured she'd have an issue with the open trailer with people in it. I was right and she slammed on the brakes as I went to pass it while we were still warming up outside the ring. I decided to pick my battle and looped her back around the other way. It paid off and I got her past in that direction but it still wasn't good and she was hot and upset. She started to spin and went to rear and I let the judge know that I was "ready" since I figured getting her in and moving was better than continuing to do loops at that point.

One of the good moments
Again I was proud that I actually got her in the ring and then we did our own version of the test including a shoulder in (or was it a haunches out) all the way to the halt at X where we did actually sort of halt. I sort of did a salute and then did a trot but sort of didn't make it to C. Whenever we were going away from the judge's trailer she was quite good but going towards it she was very reluctant and worried.

Another really nice moment - L's 4 year old in the background looking like an expert show horse
We did another sort of shoulder in thing, sideways to the final halt (which in test C is of course very close to the judge) and again, we actually halted, probably only because Katai wasn't willing to get any closer to that trailer.

Pretty square based on our trajectory!

It felt a bit like a disaster based on how well she'd done in the warmup but mainly I'm just glad that we pretty much got through the test, sans canter. L congratulated me and let me know that she was very proud and that I should be too. She said that we had moments of brilliance :)

At any rate I decided to scratch Intro A. We would have had to put Katai back in her stall for about an hour and then go back out there. I doubted that I could do it, plus I wanted to make this as positive and easy as possible and getting untacked and tacked again plus just trying to mount the fire breathing dragon just didn't seem possible at that point. What you can't see in these photos is that as soon as I dismounted after our test she quickly lathered up with sweat and was clearly at her limit.

I was reading for L's second test, Intro B, and we didn't have much time so we got both horses back to their stalls. At that point Katai's brain had completed the process of oozing out of her ears and she completely lost it in her stall.

Tantrum level Unicorn
She spent nearly the entire half hour we spent back at stabling on her hind legs. We think that she was so in heat that she NEEDED other horses and was trying to see over the partition. It was painful to stand there and, thankfully, while she can be a bit nuts she's also intelligent and very aware of herself so she never actually does anything stupid. Plus we knew that once I left she'd be better so I headed over to the small ring to wait for L and find someone with a test B for me to read from.

L had a REALLY good intro test B on her baby and we found out later that she scored a 65% with a couple of 8s and despite at least one 4. By that point her horse had lost his brain a little as well only for him it meant being tired and withdrawn. L and I brought him back to the barn, witnessed more craziness from Katai, and got our tests. I ended up with a 35.25% on my test which was very fair and accurate based on how Katai behaved.


The smily face shows me that we were crap this time and she gave us an accurate score but she has hope for us ;)
We quickly moved to load up and, based on how things went the previous day we loaded up L's horse first. He took about 10 minutes and then I walked Katai right in. I was really proud of her and despite all of her circling, screaming, calling, trying to run me over, rearing, rearing and flailing into me, and just generally loosing her crap, we got there and did what we meant to do.

We got back to the barn by around 10:30am so our show day was short and sweet (don't ask Katai cause I'm sure she'll have a different story). I went home and chilled the rest of the evening and was really glad that it was Memorial Day weekend so that I'd have another day off.

** The beautiful photos were taken by a friend who we used to board with at the last barn and who also takes lessons from L.

She also took this photo and her horse is the bay Arabian

Sunday, May 29, 2016

Act I: Show Recap 5/29

First off, we survived!! There were some rough moments but I'm pumped to have finished our first show together and nothing will be tougher than this first time.

To start off my show "weekend" I planned to get to the barn around 2:30pm on Saturday, bathe the pony, give her some Quietex, and give her a chance to dry before leaving for the show grounds around 4:30pm. On the drive up there I decided that my only goal for the show was to try to make it as good of experience for Katai as I could and to focus on being in the moment and not worrying about anything.

I started off on the right foot when I got to the barn. L was there and I just set to getting my stuff packed and Katai bathed. She was quite offended that I gave her half the tube of paste but then went to a "drugged out" happy place pretty quick. I gave her a bath with no small amount of my purple whitening shampoo and then put her back in her stall with a cooler to dry out.

While I finished getting my tack packed in my car I heard that there was an issue with the hitch for the trailer that L was borrowing and her SO, who was hauling us with his truck, was trying to find a different ball or hitch. There were several phone calls back and forth and then he found a solution and was on his way. He got to the barn pretty quick and we started loading just before 5:00 right after a downpour went through which was a good indicator of how our Sunday would go.

I have been extremely confident that Katai would load (based on the last few experiences) but of course she decided to prove me wrong. We tried the "nice" way first with some grain bribes but eventually I asked for a dressage whip and we had a bit of a "come to jesus" meeting. It wasn't the way that I wanted to start our weekend but eventually she stepped politely on the trailer. She bounced around while L loaded her very quiet and well behaved 4 year old gelding and then we were off.

At the show ground both horses unloaded well, except that Katai was fairly stressy and sweating from her eyeballs, and we put them in their stalls. Katai started eating right away which I was happy about because normally she won't eat at all if she's stressed. She did some screaming and pacing but mostly she wasn't bad. Since she was still pretty stressy we decided to tack up both horses and lunge/walk them over to the ring and see who they were doing before we decided if/when we were going to ride.

Overnight show stabling
Katai was prancy and a bit bratty, but mainly remembering her manners, on the way over to the ring but L's 4 year old was calm and cool as a cucumber. He was calm and sweet and didn't put a foot wrong so was a good example for my 8 year old :) It was drizzling a bit but luckily not raining, which we had been expecting, which was nice!

Main barn
Amazingly, after a little lunging at a walk/trot in each direction in the warm up ring Katai was doing well enough that I climbed on. She was actually really, really, really good once I was on. She listened, was calm, and I rode her all over the warm up ring and small show ring as well as the large show ring. She didn't balk at anything and didn't have any real spooks. I did a bunch of walk, mostly on a loose rein and a bunch of trot. Both L and I kept it pretty short and sweet since we wanted to end while they were still behaving well.

Actually from Sunday while we were hiding from the rain but it's a good picture of the pony in her stall.
We put them back in their stalls and Katai lost her mind. She was throwing herself against the walls and screaming. She nearly took out her bucket twice and wouldn't eat. We fed her her grain and she quieted down and ate and then we left, hoping that she would do better without us standing outside of her stall. Indeed, as we stood out of her site by our vehicles and talked we only heard a scream or two. L and her SO left to get food and I stuck around a little longer to spy on her a little and make sure that she was getting quieter.


I checked on her again after getting my car organized and she was quiet until she spotted me and then got a bit wild again so I made the call to leave and crossed my fingers that I wouldn't get a call that my pony was still wild and screaming later that night. I got home around 8:45, got a few more things organized and packed for the next day and then crawled into bed around 10:00 with an alarm set to wake up around 5:30am.

Saturday, May 28, 2016

The Big Show

It's nearly here!!!

Katai and my first show is tomorrow and I'm freaking out a little. Tonight will actually be the scariest part of the experience since L and I are going to trailer our young horses over and she's going to give me a lesson. Katai has never been ridden right after being trailered somewhere and she can be a handful even in her normal environment.

Kissable Nose :-)
In fact, last night I did a ride and my goal was to just trot forward, not nag or micro manage, and do some canter in each direction. That, however, was not Katai's plan and she came out of her stall in quite a mood. Even in the cross ties she was abnormally crabby and even though I was baby talking to her and really taking things easy she wasn't all about that.

Our ride was pretty rough. I was proud of myself because I didn't escalate but I did continue to have expectations of her and didn't throw my hands in the air at any point. I was actually proud of the way she handled it because other than not being willing to travel straight at the walk she was really listening to my corrections and changing her way of going based on my feedback. I also suspect that she may have been in heat which might actually be ok since I'm sure she'll go into heat at the show tomorrow no matter what.

Little hussy ;)

I've got most of my stuff together and just finishing up packing now. I'm leaving around 2:00pm so that I can bathe her and get all my tack together before 4:30 when we're going to trailer over to the grounds.

Wish us luck!!

Tuesday, May 24, 2016

Different Experience: Lesson Recap 5/22

Right at the start of my lesson L asked if I'd like to ride her 4 year old warmblood while she's out of town. I feel like that's such a compliment since 4 year olds in particular are so moldable. I feel like it's a huge compliment to my riding that L trusts me to ride her greenie.

She is having a trainer ride him two days per week but wants me to put the other two rides on him for two weeks while she is out since that's what she would normally be doing. Next week we're going to swap rides one evening and she'll ride Katai while I ride her horse. That way she can give me some tips and make sure that I'll be on the right track with him for her time away.

Minor mare meltdown, maybe she didn't think she was having a good hair day?
I will be gone for awhile during that time as well, June 6th - June 10th, so the weekend before and the weekend after I'll be riding/lunging two horses each day. Because of that unfortunately L won't be able to give Katai any trainer rides during that time but we're going to find a way for her to do some at some point soon.

I had a great lesson this weekend. Katai is getting to be such a grown up and really becoming a fun ride. We worked primarily on trot and did just a bit of canter with lots of walk breaks since we had another 30 degree temperature swing that put us in the 80s that day. Inside it was cooler but still hot and humid and pony got pretty sweated up pretty quick.

Sunny hand grazing this evening after a great ride
After a nice long walk break we went back to trot, L wanted to make sure that Katai can roll with the punches, and we had an AMAZING trot!!! It was seriously nice and L said, with a big smile on her face, that if we could get that trot we'd do VERY well.

Love that little drizzle of white down her jaw
So that's my goal, get that trot at the show, even if it's not in the ring I'd like to get that trot.

Monday, May 23, 2016

Getting Ready For the Shit Show

First I just want to explain that I'm not actually as negative about this as I've been coming off in my blog. I'm seriously thrilled just to have the opportunity to trailer Katai off property much less the fact that we are finally SHOWING!!! I'm so freaking excited about that that I can't even tell you.

The reason that I'm talking about the show like this is that honestly that's what I'm expecting. I'm putting on my horse training hat (for the first time in awhile it feels like) and going into this with the idea that there are going to be lots of great teachable moments and while that's a win, it won't be the show as much the environment around the show. I KNOW that Katai will be a handful, I also know that I can handle everything she throws at me.

I'm also thinking and talking about it this way so that I don't have any unrealistic expectations. I'm hoping that she's going to surprise me and be sort of laid back, but I don't think she will be. If she is It will be a happy surprise and I'll change my expectations.

I'm also not going at this with any sort of negativity or hopelessness. I've been doing a lot of visualization of things going really well, Katai being really calm and listening, and getting successfully through each test just as though we were at home. I'm firmly confident that we'll get completely through at least our second test and I have no concerns about falling off, getting hurt, or not being able to get her on the trailer for example. Only that, like I mentioned, there will be lots of good teachable moments.

Moving on, I've had a lot to do since I've never really shown before. I didn't have any type of shirt to wear or a saddle pad or anything. I'd picked up a few things ahead of time like this extremely "cool" sleazy hood (pony is primarily white after all)


and this saddle pad from Horze
plus a white polo shirt type show shirt but pretty much everything else will just be what I already had. For schooling shows at least my field boots, Katai's saddle, and bridle will all be perfectly fine. My helmet is the fanciest thing I have but unfortunately if it's warm out I may end up needing to wear my old helmet so I don't get a headache.

I didn't love the idea of wearing white breaches and a white shirt so I got a black, short sleeved show shirt from Kerrits.
Then ended up not being able to find a pair of white breeches that fit and that weren't ugly and weren't incredibly expensive and of course I don't need them so I'll be wearing some of my regular grey breeches and either the white or black show shirt. I'll be excited to do some more shopping for show clothes this winter as I'm planning for a, hopefully, slightly more competitive 2017 show season.

Hopefully Back On Track

 It has been such a long time since I posted anything here! There has been a lot going on with Killian over the past several months and I...